Scans of book covers - ?

[Jeff B]

Hope this isn't an inappropriate posting, but you folks are the most
likely source for this info!

I've been looking for a hardcover copy of Robert McCammon's 'Swan
Song' for some time. Since the original release of this book was
paperback, and only a single hardcover printing was done (several
years after the first release) by Dark Harvest, the HC edition is
rather hard to come by for less than $100.

Anyway, when I saw a copy without a dustjacket appear on half.com for
$25, I jumped on it. Now for my own peace of mind (and appearance on
my bookshelf!), I'd like to print a copy of the dustjacket, if
possible.

Are there any sites where I might find high quality scans of
dustjackets? I've seen that a lot of sellers on e-bay will include a
printed or copied dust jacket when the original is missing (sometimes
rather unscrupulously!), so I imagine there must be a source for these
SOMEWHERE....

Anyone have any tips?

Thanks!

[Francis A. Miniter]

Post by Jeff B
Hope this isn't an inappropriate posting, but you folks are the most
likely source for this info!
I've been looking for a hardcover copy of Robert McCammon's 'Swan
Song' for some time. Since the original release of this book was
paperback, and only a single hardcover printing was done (several
years after the first release) by Dark Harvest, the HC edition is
rather hard to come by for less than $100.
Anyway, when I saw a copy without a dustjacket appear on half.com for
$25, I jumped on it. Now for my own peace of mind (and appearance on
my bookshelf!), I'd like to print a copy of the dustjacket, if
possible.
Are there any sites where I might find high quality scans of
dustjackets? I've seen that a lot of sellers on e-bay will include a
printed or copied dust jacket when the original is missing (sometimes
rather unscrupulously!), so I imagine there must be a source for these
SOMEWHERE....
Anyone have any tips?
Thanks!

I have seen such ads. Assuming a book within the copyright period, the
copying of the dust jacket for commercial gain would be a violation of
the copyright law and international conventions on copyright. Dust
jacket art itself is subject matter for copyright. So a web site
hawking such items would be in quick trouble.


On a practical level, I would be surprised if any buyer would pay a
premium over the price without a DJ for one that is a copy. (Of course,
there is a sucker born every minute, as a one time resident of my state
used to say.) Originality is what makes collectibility. If you have
followed the current discussion here about Hemingway points of issue,
you will notice that getting the wrong issue dust jacket on a book can
really confuse things and may make the book worth less than it would
have been without a jacket by bringing into question whether it was a
first issue after all.


If protection of your book is your objective, you can make your own
non-infringing dust jacket out of plain non-acid paper. I don't worry
about the appearance of my bookshelf. A missing just jacket is rather
a reminder that the quest is not finished.


Francis A. Miniter

[michael adams]

Post by Francis A. Miniter

Post by Jeff B
Hope this isn't an inappropriate posting, but you folks are the most
likely source for this info!
I've been looking for a hardcover copy of Robert McCammon's 'Swan
Song' for some time. Since the original release of this book was
paperback, and only a single hardcover printing was done (several
years after the first release) by Dark Harvest, the HC edition is
rather hard to come by for less than $100.
Anyway, when I saw a copy without a dustjacket appear on half.com for
$25, I jumped on it. Now for my own peace of mind (and appearance on
my bookshelf!), I'd like to print a copy of the dustjacket, if
possible.
Are there any sites where I might find high quality scans of
dustjackets? I've seen that a lot of sellers on e-bay will include a
printed or copied dust jacket when the original is missing (sometimes
rather unscrupulously!), so I imagine there must be a source for these
SOMEWHERE....
Anyone have any tips?
Thanks!

I have seen such ads. Assuming a book within the copyright period, the
copying of the dust jacket for commercial gain would be a violation of
the copyright law and international conventions on copyright. Dust
jacket art itself is subject matter for copyright. So a web site
hawking such items would be in quick trouble.

...

Er, not really...

http://www.facsimiledustjackets.com/cgi-bin/fdj455/

offers d/ws for 8,500 titles but for a different
Swan Song to the OP's.

http://www.phantombookshop.com/dustjackets/

This guy claims to repaint them, rather than simply copy them
But not this title apparently.

And there are plenty of others. At least they're referred to as such,
desparagingly on the above site. I think there's some licensing
arrangement they all claim to have.

...

Post by Francis A. Miniter
On a practical level, I would be surprised if any buyer would pay a
premium over the price without a DJ for one that is a copy.

...

You'd better have a word with Diane about that. Grapes of Wrath
and all that.

....

Post by Francis A. Miniter
(Of course,
there is a sucker born every minute, as a one time resident of my state
used to say.) Originality is what makes collectibility. If you have
followed the current discussion here about Hemingway points of issue,
you will notice that getting the wrong issue dust jacket on a book can
really confuse things and may make the book worth less than it would
have been without a jacket by bringing into question whether it was a
first issue after all.
If protection of your book is your objective, you can make your own
non-infringing dust jacket out of plain non-acid paper. I don't worry
about the appearance of my bookshelf. A missing just jacket is rather
a reminder that the quest is not finished.
Francis A. Miniter

michael adams

...

[Francis A. Miniter]

Post by michael adams

Post by Francis A. Miniter
I have seen such ads. Assuming a book within the copyright period, the
copying of the dust jacket for commercial gain would be a violation of
the copyright law and international conventions on copyright. Dust
jacket art itself is subject matter for copyright. So a web site
hawking such items would be in quick trouble.

...
Er, not really...
http://www.facsimiledustjackets.com/cgi-bin/fdj455/
offers d/ws for 8,500 titles but for a different
Swan Song to the OP's.
http://www.phantombookshop.com/dustjackets/
This guy claims to repaint them, rather than simply copy them
But not this title apparently.
And there are plenty of others. At least they're referred to as such,
desparagingly on the above site. I think there's some licensing
arrangement they all claim to have.

The first guy acknowledges the copyright issue, and believes that he has
overcome it by having "Facsimile Dust Jackets L.L.C." on the front
flap. Maybe, maybe not. I tend to think "not", unless he pays a royalty.

The second guy does not mention copyright at all, as far as I can see,
but a look at his covers indicates that they are probably beyond the
copyright period.

A licensing agreement would be reqiured for legal copying (for
non-personal use) of dust jacket art within the copyright period.


Francis A. Miniter

[Diane]

Post by michael adams

Post by Francis A. Miniter

Post by Jeff B
Hope this isn't an inappropriate posting, but you folks are the most
likely source for this info!
I've been looking for a hardcover copy of Robert McCammon's 'Swan
Song' for some time. Since the original release of this book was
paperback, and only a single hardcover printing was done (several
years after the first release) by Dark Harvest, the HC edition is
rather hard to come by for less than $100.
Anyway, when I saw a copy without a dustjacket appear on half.com for
$25, I jumped on it. Now for my own peace of mind (and appearance on
my bookshelf!), I'd like to print a copy of the dustjacket, if
possible.
Are there any sites where I might find high quality scans of
dustjackets? I've seen that a lot of sellers on e-bay will include a
printed or copied dust jacket when the original is missing (sometimes
rather unscrupulously!), so I imagine there must be a source for these
SOMEWHERE....
Anyone have any tips?
Thanks!

I have seen such ads. Assuming a book within the copyright period, the
copying of the dust jacket for commercial gain would be a violation of
the copyright law and international conventions on copyright. Dust
jacket art itself is subject matter for copyright. So a web site
hawking such items would be in quick trouble.

...
Er, not really...
http://www.facsimiledustjackets.com/cgi-bin/fdj455/
offers d/ws for 8,500 titles but for a different
Swan Song to the OP's.
http://www.phantombookshop.com/dustjackets/
This guy claims to repaint them, rather than simply copy them
But not this title apparently.
And there are plenty of others. At least they're referred to as such,
desparagingly on the above site. I think there's some licensing
arrangement they all claim to have.
...

Post by Francis A. Miniter
On a practical level, I would be surprised if any buyer would pay a
premium over the price without a DJ for one that is a copy.

...
You'd better have a word with Diane about that. Grapes of Wrath
and all that.

Post by Francis A. Miniter
I make you dead right Michael, I wont be doing that again, once bitten

twice shy.

Diane

Post by michael adams

Post by Francis A. Miniter
(Of course,
there is a sucker born every minute, as a one time resident of my state
used to say.) Originality is what makes collectibility. If you have
followed the current discussion here about Hemingway points of issue,
you will notice that getting the wrong issue dust jacket on a book can
really confuse things and may make the book worth less than it would
have been without a jacket by bringing into question whether it was a
first issue after all.
If protection of your book is your objective, you can make your own
non-infringing dust jacket out of plain non-acid paper. I don't worry
about the appearance of my bookshelf. A missing just jacket is rather
a reminder that the quest is not finished.
Francis A. Miniter

michael adams
...

[Jeff B]

Post by Francis A. Miniter

Post by Jeff B
Hope this isn't an inappropriate posting, but you folks are the most
likely source for this info!

I have seen such ads. Assuming a book within the copyright period, the
copying of the dust jacket for commercial gain would be a violation of
the copyright law and international conventions on copyright. Dust
jacket art itself is subject matter for copyright. So a web site
hawking such items would be in quick trouble.
On a practical level, I would be surprised if any buyer would pay a
premium over the price without a DJ for one that is a copy. (Of course,
there is a sucker born every minute, as a one time resident of my state
used to say.) Originality is what makes collectibility. If you have
followed the current discussion here about Hemingway points of issue,
you will notice that getting the wrong issue dust jacket on a book can
really confuse things and may make the book worth less than it would
have been without a jacket by bringing into question whether it was a
first issue after all.
If protection of your book is your objective, you can make your own
non-infringing dust jacket out of plain non-acid paper. I don't worry
about the appearance of my bookshelf. A missing just jacket is rather
a reminder that the quest is not finished.
Francis A. Miniter

Thanks for the response. I don't expect that this will add any value
at all to the book - more a matter of asthetics. I totally agree that

Post by Francis A. Miniter
A missing just jacket is rather a reminder that the quest is not finished.

but it would make *me* feel better to have at least a copy of it just
for looks. I can't see myself ever selling this book again, 'cuz I'll
keep it as a reading copy if I get to the point of shelling out $$ for
a better copy.

Copyright is an interesting issue, especially since Dark Harvest
doesn't seem to be in business any longer. Does the author hold the
copyright? The publisher? The artist? Does it vary by book? I had
a look at http://www.facsimiledustjackets.com and wondered about this
issue, esp. since he's clearly profiting from this.

There are certain books that I buy more for their future value -
anything signed by Stephen King, for example. (Sorry Mr. King, to be
anticipating a profit from your death!!)

However, there are a number of books that I buy because I value more
the contents between the covers than the investment value. I am more
than happy to buy one of these in less than good condition just to
have a copy. However, the vanity in me would still prefer that they
make a good presentation on my bookshelf. For these, I would have no
issue with using a copy of the dust jacket rather than the original.

[b***@cix.compulink.co.uk]

Post by Jeff B
Copyright is an interesting issue, especially since Dark Harvest
doesn't seem to be in business any longer. Does the author hold the
copyright? The publisher? The artist? Does it vary by book? I had
a look at http://www.facsimiledustjackets.com and wondered about this
issue, esp. since he's clearly profiting from this.

It's very unlikely that the author held the copyright of the various
elements of the dj (photos, illustrations, typographical arrangement,
blurb, etc.). I would guess - though I don't know, and IANAL - that in the
case of a specially-commissioned dj illustration the artist would sell all
rights to the publisher. But the creator of an already-existing
illustration or photograph would probably not sell all rights.

On a practical level, IWHT that the important issue is whether the
publisher (or whoever has eventually acquired its intellectual property
after the 28 takeovers it underwent since the book's publication) is
likely to worry about the rip-off. If the book is many decades out of
print and unlikely to be reissued, the publisher does not stand to lose
any money from the distribution of facsimile djs and may simply not care
about the issue, even if they find out.

OTOH I can imagine the publishers of, say, the Harry Potters getting quite
exercised about the matter.

[Francis A. Miniter]

Post by Jeff B

<big snip>

Copyright is an interesting issue, especially since Dark Harvest
doesn't seem to be in business any longer. Does the author hold the
copyright? The publisher? The artist? Does it vary by book? I had
a look at http://www.facsimiledustjackets.com and wondered about this
issue, esp. since he's clearly profiting from this.
<another snip>

Hi Jeff,


As to the text of the book, the copyright is originally with
the author unless written as a "work for hire", in which
case it belongs to the employer. The author enters into an
agreement with the publishing company whereby the author
either assigns or licenses rights in the book to the
publisher. An assignment is usually a conveyance of all
rights. More typically, there is a limited conveyance for
instance of rights to publish and sell hardcover and
softcover copies of the work. Often times, the contract
reserves to the publisher first rights of refusal to the
author's next work or works. Sometimes, the contract covers
promotion of the work by the publishing house, obligations
for the author to appear for interviews and signings, etc.
For a riotous mystery novel about author-publisher
relationships, read Martha Grimes, "Foul Matter".


As to the jacket art, that is almost certainly a "work for
hire" contracted for by the publishing house for a fee. The
artist is (these days) commonly credited for the jacket art
but retains no rights in the artwork. Rarely, but
sometimes, the jacket art reproduces some already existing
art. In that case, the publisher needs a license to
reproduce an image of the existing work on the dust jacket,
unless the copyright period on the existing work has already
ceased.


The Copyright Act of 1978 provides (Section 302) that the
copyright in a work created after January 1, 1978 endures
for the life of the author + 70 years, or, for a work for
hire, for 95 years from first publication. Section 304
provides that for works published before that date, then in
general, the first term (if still active) of the copyright
is limited to 28 years from the date secured, but is capable
of renewal and extension for a second term of 67 years. If
it is already in the extension term, i.e., if the Sonny Bono
Copyright Extension Act applies, then the copyright ends 95
years from the date originally secured. There are
exceptions but these are the general rules.


Francis A. Miniter

[Francis A. Miniter]

Jeff B wrote:

<snipped again>

Post by Jeff B
Copyright is an interesting issue, especially since Dark Harvest
doesn't seem to be in business any longer. <big snip>

Missed that point before. When a company ceses to exist,
its intellectual property assets do not disappear. They
will devolve either to a purchaser of the assets of the
company (sometimes a bigger publishing house, in the case of
a small publishing company) or to the shareholders (usually
only if there are few shareholders) or to creditors in the
event of a bankruptcy (in which case, a receiver or trustee
will be looking after the income). But someone will retain
an interest.


Francis A. Miniter

.

[Mike Berro]

As a collector of original art for DJs (and PBs), I've occasionally had to
sign agreements with the artist that the copyright has not been transferred
with the painting. When the artist is not an employee of the publisher, the
artist keeps the copyright (and the painting); the publisher simply pays for
it's use. I've also asked publishers about posting DJ images on my websites,
and they usually say they encourage it (free advertising), providing I have
the permission of the artist.

If I was a published artist, I might be perturbed if someone was making a
profit by selling copies of my work (e.g. DJs) without permission. However,
in most cases, artists are paid a relatively paltry sum, so if permission is
aksed, it is most likely to be given without a fee. A friend of mine started
a business making posters and t-shirts from pulp pbs, and he tracked down
all the artists he used. As I recall, he didn't have to pay any of them. (He
also went out of business, since now anyone can have a t-shirt or poster
made from any artwork for a pittance.)

If I wanted a faux DJ (and I don't), I'd ask a dealer for a scan of the DJ
(stating my purpose; that I'm not going to buy it), and I'd guess perhaps
half would say yes. If none do, offer a few bucks for the scan. Then, print
it out at Kinko's.

---Mike
http://www.booktouronline.com

Post by Francis A. Miniter
<snipped again>

Post by Jeff B
Copyright is an interesting issue, especially since Dark Harvest
doesn't seem to be in business any longer. <big snip>

Missed that point before. When a company ceses to exist,
its intellectual property assets do not disappear. They
will devolve either to a purchaser of the assets of the
company (sometimes a bigger publishing house, in the case of
a small publishing company) or to the shareholders (usually
only if there are few shareholders) or to creditors in the
event of a bankruptcy (in which case, a receiver or trustee
will be looking after the income). But someone will retain
an interest.
Francis A. Miniter
.

[Jeff B]

Post by Mike Berro
....
If I wanted a faux DJ (and I don't), I'd ask a dealer for a scan of the DJ
(stating my purpose; that I'm not going to buy it), and I'd guess perhaps
half would say yes. If none do, offer a few bucks for the scan. Then, print
it out at Kinko's.
---Mike
http://www.booktouronline.com

Post by Francis A. Miniter
<snipped again>

Post by Jeff B
Copyright is an interesting issue, especially since Dark Harvest
doesn't seem to be in business any longer. <big snip>

Missed that point before. When a company ceses to exist,
its intellectual property assets do not disappear. They
will devolve either to a purchaser of the assets of the
company (sometimes a bigger publishing house, in the case of
a small publishing company) or to the shareholders (usually
only if there are few shareholders) or to creditors in the
event of a bankruptcy (in which case, a receiver or trustee
will be looking after the income). But someone will retain
an interest.
Francis A. Miniter

Thanks for all of the responses, everyone. Thanks especially for the
education about copyright, Francis! I'll take this slightly off topic
here & ask if anyone knows the story of what happened to Dark Harvest?
I know that Subterranean Press is now publishing the Night Visions
anthologies... did they acquire the DH assets, maybe?

One of my first thoughts was also to contact the publishers to see if
they have some leftover jackets or if I could even get an electronic
copy from them, but that's kind of tough since they're no longer
around.